Cardano Forum thread
I know this is a subject that irritates many of the larger pools and technical people in Cardano but I am sorry but I have to bring it up again as I believe that it is a compliance concern. I have worked in compliance for the past 20 years and I am actually quite surprised that this is not being addressed.
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1/n Hey #CardanoCommunity I think it is really time to discuss a potential parameter change to the #Cardano Blockchain that would strongly benefit the decentralization of the network. I am talking about the min. fixed fee which has to be charged by a SPO currently set to 340 ADA.
The min Pool Fee is not so much of a technical problem for Cardano but more of a reputational and credibility issue for Cardano and I would argue that this needs to be addressed sooner than later.
Vasil is increeamental to current features in cardano blockchain as a SPO I'm waiting for Proof of work so we can minimize the fees even already it's too low as compared to Eth etc.
but We can make the fees almost 0 ADA.
Thanks to #cardano’s mandatory 340 ada/epoch fixed fee, a pool with 5mil pledge and 0% margin can be less attractive than a pool with 0 pledge 12% margin.
@InputOutputHK that’s a bad thing.
The CIP I'm working on specifically targets this problem. The current pledge design makes zero sense.
Last time directly asked about it on an SPO call one of @InputOutputHK’s board members interrupted the scientist and stifled the conversation.
I would love to hear a scientific explanation for leaving it at its current value for so long despite so much evidence against it.
Was just discussing the minimum fee of the current #Cardano Reward Sharing Scheme and its implications with my friend @SebastianForte
We should abolish it as soon as possible!!
What matters should be:
- pledge
- var. fee
- performance
- pool size (eg. marketing, mission-driven)
Not really, remove the min fee and small pools will be slightly more viable. The problem is with pledge. It currently doesn't do anything which allows exchanges and some multipools to operate with high leverage.
#Cardano $ADA
It's strange to see SPOs complain about fully pledged private pools making more with the pledge benefit when they themselves are making even more with the fixed fee and margin.
Hahaha. 👍 IOG For the record actually proposed allowing a minfee as low as 30 Ada and moving K to 750. I was on at least two calls where the feedback was cautious but positive around that change. Then by May it was dead. Typical death by committee. Small change. No leadership.
Hence the tweet, I agree that minFee is detrimental to the system, but I'm trying to find a path for IOG to transition to this position.
At a small enough minFee (1/etc) its effects would be so small as to be equivalent to removing it.
Anything that incentivises small pools and helps the protocol towards decentralisation has my unwavering support. So yes, I support getting rid of the minpoolcost.
1. Decentralization MAV only at 24! minPoolCost parameter is warping staking, "funny-staking". Was never in the protocol simulated under research refer @DrLiesenfelt for CIP50 @josephines8008s for simpler takes.
2. SEC prep? how well prepared for the coming battle?
Is it truly random? I was under the impression that the more the staked/delegated amount a pool has the better it’s chances of minting blocks.
The rewards will have to come from fees, either from more usage or higher fees (parameter change could make it happen from one epoch to the next). One of the big things we will need to face as a community over the next decades.
I'm in favor of using the parameters we have available to us to attempt to improve the staking situation of Cardano BEFORE we do a complete rewrite.
Small incremental changes, coupled with close observation like we did for D and the block size increases.
Gm #Cardano!
Still working on the CIP.
When you realize that most large pools could reduce pledge to zero and still offer delegators higher rewards than small pools with high pledge:
To my knowledge there's no CIP for explicitly removing the min fixed fee.
You could also run a campaign (e.g. via catalyst) to poll all cardano stakeholders via on chain vote. If the majority agrees, I doubt that IOG would stand in the way of making this change.
Correct (if the stake pool reduces the fixed fee, of course).
The minimum fixed fee is a minimum, it can be set higher. There are stake pools with higher fixed fee than 340 now, too. There are a few with 420, for example 😁
Only a dummy would be stocking up on a coin that’s becoming more centralized over time driven by misaligned incentives.
#cardano has the opportunity to distinguish itself from BTC and ETH, but can’t with a minPoolCost.
minPoolCost incentivizes centralization.
@IOHK_Charles
Then @InputOutputHK lied to the #cardano #community again saying they’re working in conjunction with @Cardano_CF and their research team regarding it.
This is an IOG board decision, nobody else’s.
Why more people don’t follow this account? Are we already too deep in an echo chamber to listen to a sound criticism? I see it as biggest Cardano weakness. Central team behind it with more and more different vision than the one of the community and inability to listen.
Informal SPO poll:
Are you satisfied with the current Cardano staking parameters (minPoolFee, k, a0)?
Please RT for visibility.
The following example shows how small pools have no choice but to share the Pool Fee to have any chance of being competitive. Figures are for rewards in Epoch 366 with a max of 1 block minted
Delegators need to be aware of this
#StakingRewards @benohanlon
Don’t worry, setting minPoolCost to 0 won’t default any pools to 0. You can continue stealing all your delegators rewards.
I don't know if removing minPoolFee will help smaller pools or make it works since I am not a researcher BUT what I do know is that sometimes good intentions may have opposite effect...
Worth to iterate over it for sure but how to simulate it?
@sol3gga @DrLiesenfelt
Some #Cardano stake pools believe it might be a good idea to BLOCK future upgrades because they want on chain parameter changes. Would you support these pools
#Cardano $ADA
It's finally here! My CIP for fair stakepool rewards. This CIP removes anticompetitive features (like the min fee) from the reward scheme to create a fairer network.
Forum Post:
forum.cardano.org/t/cip-fair-sta…
Please read it and share your thoughts. 🙏
1/3
imagine advocating for minPoolCost as beneficial for small pools after reading this (directly from IOHK)
TL;DR "The purpose of minimum fees was to make it impossible for small pools starting out to economically compete with larger established pools..."
IOG get the finger out and sort these parameters.
Pledge means nothing, K is a riot & min fee is just full of 💩💩💩
@IOHK_Charles @IOHKMedia @benohanlon @timbharrison